June 26, 2025
*Editor’s Note: Can church leaders be a voice of wisdom to politicians—without being seduced by political power? Can church leaders speak up to their churches regarding pieces of legislation—without accidentally leading their people to become political pawns? In this conversation, Bobby Harrington speaks with his friend Senator Jack Johnson as they reflect on a recent SCOTUS decision to uphold a Tennessee bill that Johnson sponsored to protect minors from transgender interventions. In this conversation, they discuss the need for wisdom, conviction, and courage to navigate tough ethical issues today.
Bobby: I’d like to welcome my friend Jack Johnson, Senate Majority Leader in Tennessee, along with Daniel McCoy, our editorial director at RENEW.org. Today, we get to reflect on a good story. It has been said that evil prevails when good people remain silent. And we know how easy it is to see the world going a negative direction and assume there’s nothing we can do about it. But we’re here today to reflect on a story that shows us that it’s possible for people of conviction to break the silence and even to play a part in redirecting negative trajectories. By faith in God and God working through us, we actually can be used to make a difference.
So, Jack, what’s this story about? What happened this week?
Jack: Well, thank you, Bobby, for inviting me to this conversation. It’s a real pleasure to be with you. We had a very exciting week not only for Tennessee, but I think for the entire country. A couple days ago, the United States Supreme Court issued a decision on a case that had been pending before them for close to a year. The case centered on legislation I sponsored here in the Tennessee General Assembly that banned transgender surgeries and medications on minor children which I believe to be very harmful.
“We had a very exciting week not only for Tennessee, but I think for the entire country.”
This is an issue that came up in late 2022. We found out that here in Tennessee, which most people consider to be a fairly conservative state, we did in fact have medical practitioners performing these surgeries—removing body parts and prescribing very harmful medications—in an attempt to treat minors experiencing gender dysphoria or gender confusion. These are little boys and girls—for example, 14, 15, and 16 years old—that believe they’re in the wrong body and who don’t like the body God gave them. We discovered that there were some medical practitioners here in Tennessee who were prescribing treatments that would result in irreversible harm to these children’s bodies.
So, I introduced legislation in early 2023 to ban these practices in Tennessee. Other states have contemplated and passed similar legislation. So, we passed a bill in Tennessee that banned those procedures, and we were sued by the Biden Department of Justice and the ACLU over that legislation. So, we’ve been in a legal battle over that legislation for around two and a half years. But just a couple days ago, the United States Supreme Court handed down a decision ruling that our legislation is constitutional and that states like Tennessee do, in fact, have a right to regulate these types of medical practices.
So, I believe it’s a very good day. The legislation that we passed and were sued over was effectively the test case for the entire country. So, now other states—we’re up to about around half the states that have passed legislation to ban these practices—have a roadmap based on legislation that we crafted in Tennessee on how to do it and ensure that it’s constitutional.
“We found out that here in Tennessee, which most people consider to be a fairly conservative state, we did in fact have medical practitioners performing these surgeries—removing body parts and prescribing very harmful medications.”
Bobby: That’s amazing. Well, I’m really grateful. We published an article in December of last year (“Why Our Church Decided to Pray About the Transgender Bill”) describing something our church did that was unusual for us. As you remember, Jack, you asked to meet with me for prayer as the bill was being argued before the Supreme Court. And so, we met—you, me, and our church’s executive minister—after which we asked you to come and explain to our church what was happening and how we could be praying. And then, as a church, we fasted and prayed about it.
Again, it was rare for us to do that, because it’s a tricky thing for a church to wisely navigate issues that become political. We want our church to be guided by the conviction that our allegiance is to King Jesus and never to a political party or politician. Here’s a graphic we like to promote which communicates our church’s conviction:
Jack: Yeah, I love that graphic. It puts it in a very visual way that I think most everyone can understand. And that’s certainly how I try to try to live. I am a Republican, and I’ve been a Republican since I knew the difference between the two parties. But you’re right, as believers, we aim for something much larger than what we can do as mere mortals here on the earth, as we try to create great communities as a self-governing people.
“We want our church to be guided by the conviction that our allegiance is to King Jesus and never to a political party or politician.”
In my time in the State Senate, I’ve had the honor of representing Williamson County and the State Senate for a number of years, and I have a lot of friends that, like you, are pastors leading a church, and I’m just grateful for the opportunity to be able to pick up the phone and call you for guidance and prayer. This legislative issue that I just described and the fact that it went all the way to the United States Supreme Court—this was unprecedented for me as a legislator. I just felt a significant weight and I wanted to know, am I doing the right thing? I believed that I was, but these battles are larger than political parties and even any governing body.
So, I’m grateful to have friends like you that I can pick up the phone and call and say, “Hey, I want you to be aware of this.” Back in December, I reached out to you when I’d found out that the Supreme Court would be conducting oral arguments on this case. I was invited to go to the Supreme Court, and my wife and I went and actually had the honor of being in the courtroom as the nine Supreme Court Justices were debating this legislation. My friend, the House sponsor of the bill, was there as well. So, it felt like one of those things our community of believers and Christ followers should know about.
And I wanted to leave up to you and other pastor friends of mine how involved they felt like they should be with their church. For the most part, I think people were grateful just to know that this was taking place so they could pray about it and hope for the right outcome. And fortunately, we got what I believe to be the right outcome just a couple of days ago.
“Fortunately, we got what I believe to be the right outcome just a couple of days ago.”
Bobby: Yes, and for anyone reading this, I want to be clear that you [Jack] did not ask to share it with our church or for our church to fast and pray about that. That was our decision as a church leadership after a lot of prayer and seeking wisdom. We church leaders today often have great conflicts on what to do about these public policy issues. Part of the difficulty is that people often don’t stick with what we talked about earlier—that our ultimate allegiance is to King Jesus, not to political parties. We want to be people who live out what is right and good in God’s eyes personally and also in the public square.
You and I also have the privilege of meeting regularly in a Bible study together in a discipling relationship, which I’ve really enjoyed. We are believers in Jesus who are helping each other, and you just happen to be in politics. But when it comes to the broader relationship of church and politics, there is definitely a tension we church leaders live with. On the one hand, if we just identify with a political party, or we naively trust politics to do the church’s heavy lifting, that’s wrong. On the other hand, sometimes people go the other extreme and don’t really say anything; they don’t advocate for truth even in more black-and-white cases such as protecting children from harmful, irreversible surgeries and medical interventions.
People may not be aware of this, but Scripture does teach that it’s wrong to transition from one gender to another. RENEW.org has put together a book called Following Jesus in an LGBTQ+ World that explores how biblical teachings relate to transgender ideology. We’ve also published helpful articles on the topic, such as “On Gender and the Bible: Thoughts of a Theologian and a Therapist on the Transgender Debate.” It’s also worth mentioning that our Christian heritage has always been to speak up for children and defend them. For more on this, I often point people to Psalm 82:3-4 and Matthew 18:1-5.
“Our Christian heritage has always been to speak up for children and defend them.”
Daniel: With competing views and unfair mischaracterizations, this would have been a difficult issue to take a stand on. Jack, what made this an issue where you felt like you couldn’t remain on the sidelines?
Jack: As we were contemplating this legislation back in 2023, as we do with all legislation, it was a very deliberative process, with hearings and testimony. There is no secret this that this legislation was making a lot of news. So, I think most people who were paying a fair degree of attention to what was going on in the legislature knew about it. We heard from lots and lots of folks, and I always try to be as fair as I can. I met with parents of children who were struggling with gender dysphoria, and I met with parents who felt it was best for their son or daughter to receive these surgical or medicinal treatments. And for the most part, we had very respectful conversations about it. But where I landed on this is that, in this instance, the state of Tennessee has a compelling interest to protect children from surgeries and drugs which have implications that are irreversible. There are lines that the state draws in the sand relative to protecting children, and this is one of those.
Daniel: When you took that stand, others began characterizing you as transphobic and that you didn’t actually care about these kids with gender dysphoria. What gave you the courage to stick with your convictions and keep going with what you knew was right, even when you were characterized in these ways?
“There are lines that the state draws in the sand relative to protecting children, and this is one of those.”
Jack: To me, it was a black and white issue. I was mortified when I found out that children in Tennessee were being subjected to some of these treatments, whether cutting off body parts or taking drugs that produced irreversible changes. I realized that, if I’m doing what I believe is right and adhering to my personal convictions informed by my faith, then I would be at peace. If I woke up one day and found out that 80% of my constituents felt differently and they would never vote for me again, that would be okay. I could sleep at night. The good news is that it was actually just the opposite. I’d say that 80% or 90% of my constituents, maybe more, were actually supportive of this legislation.
As I mentioned, another thing that helped is that I reached out to people, like Bobby, that are mentors and spiritual advisors. It helps to have people whom I just really trust and with whom I can have an unvarnished conversation. I was able to lay it out and say, “This is how I’m thinking, and I believe I’m doing the right thing. I’ve prayed about it. I feel I’m being led to pursue this legislation,” and no one whose opinion I really value dissuaded me or advised me that I was going in the wrong direction. So, it’s a myriad of different things that leads you to that point.
So, I went in knowing we were doing something very controversial, it was going to make a lot of news, and I was going to get called a lot of names by people who disagreed with me. But if I can protect even one child from having their body irreparably damaged, either through medication or some type of surgery, then I will celebrate that. And, in fact, I think this legislation is going to protect many kids.
“I think this legislation is going to protect many kids.”
Daniel: Thanks for being convictional. Bobby, what’s a takeaway church leaders can glean from the kind of example which says, “So what if I lose the next election? I’m going to do what I believe is right”?
Bobby: The Bible teaches us to give our allegiance first to King Jesus, and that’s what gives us courage to do what’s right even when things look bleak. And let me say something about bleakness: Sometimes, as church leaders, we can slide into a fatalism about the world, thinking, “Well, this is the direction Western civilization is going, and we won’t be able to recover from this.” But we don’t have to take that posture. In fact, it’s not the posture of a follower of Jesus. In the words of disciple making movement leader Shodankeh Johnson, we believe in a God who’s an “impossibility specialist.” We believe in a God who cares about our world and wants us to join with him in this mission of following Jesus, being like Jesus, and upholding the way of Jesus. And in so doing, we actually can make a difference.
We always want to speak respectfully, and we don’t want to impose our views on others. But we can speak into the public square and vote for the things that matter to Jesus. We can support policies that honor God and truth, and doing so can make a difference. And in this case, it did make a difference. If I think back even to a year ago, most of us were not optimistic that Western culture could start to shift back to a biblical and biological view of gender anytime soon, and yet look at what is happening. We just thank God for that. These things matter, and God can use us to make a difference. Let’s be of courage.
“We can support policies that honor God and truth, and doing so can make a difference.”
Daniel: Jack, what is your advice to people who have been put in positions of influence who are trying to choose between acting on their convictions and playing it safe by blending in?
Jack: If you study history, you’ll learn of people in some type of leadership role who do the right thing, regardless of the consequences. And ironically, sometimes they end up being rewarded with more influence. When folks waffle and won’t take a definitive stand on things—even if it helps them in the short run from a political standpoint—people will see through them in the long run. So, what I aspire to—and I emphasize that word aspire; I’m still working on it—is to be an individual who can lay my head on the pillow at night knowing I tried to do the right thing that day.
Daniel: Bobby, let’s speak to church leaders, since that is our main audience. Can you speak into whether it’s better for church leaders to “waffle” or aim for clarity when it comes to ethical issues like these?
Bobby: Yeah, many of my friends in ministry, especially those in bigger churches, may be hesitant to tackle some of these issues because they know they have people in their churches who are going to be offended. But we need to remember that our number one job is to equip people to follow Jesus and to be faithful to him. The apostle Paul described how he didn’t hesitate to proclaim the Word of God publicly and from house to house. When he met with the Ephesian elders toward the latter part of his life, he described how he taught them “the whole will of God,” urging these leaders to follow his example in his absence (Acts 20:27).
“We need to remember that our number one job is to equip people to follow Jesus and to be faithful to him.”
I think that that’s what we’ve got to do as church leaders. We’ve got to say, gracefully and respectfully (see 1 Peter 3:15), what it means to follow Jesus. Our job as church leaders is to help people see God’s will for their lives and do it, always being faithful to Jesus. In turn, we hopefully will inspire others, whatever sphere of life, whether they’re schoolteachers, lawyers, truck drivers like my father, or politicians, or whoever it is, to follow King Jesus and be strong and trust him with the results.
